Average to Savage
Average to Savage

Episode · 4 weeks ago

Madison Packer | Average to Savage EP142

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This is the one hundred and forty-second episode of the Average to Savage podcast featuring Metropolitan Riveters captain Madison Packer. Paul Guarino talked with Madison Packer discussing her hockey career at Wisconsin, playing in the NWHL now the PHF, and what its like to be a new mom,

Powered by BUSR Sign up using my link http://BUSR.com/PAUL and deposit $100 and get a $100 free bet

Follow Madison Packer

https://www.instagram.com/mpacker14

This podcast interview with Madison Packer was originally recorded on September 16, 2021

...this is the average to Savage podcastwith paul Guerrino. Everyone in, anyone athletes celebs andmuch more. Today's episode is brought to you by busr dot com. You know, everyone always asks me where they should bet and now Igot a solution for them, the U. S. R. Dot com slash paul. You deposit 100dollars, they'll match your $100 in free bets. So you basically get $200.Go check it out. Be USr dot com slash paul. What's up everybody? I'm back foranother episode. The Average Savage podcast. Our special guest today isMadison Packer, Madison. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good? I appreciateyou coming on. Finally got you on. Mhm. Yeah, I'm easier to nail down to mywife for sure. Let's just go uh into the rebranding of the W. Of the N. W. H.L. Now it's the PS. H. F. Which I think is easier to say now ph F. Um so whatare your thoughts on it and what do you think it's going to come with the newrebranding? Yeah. Um Well I could give you a like fancypr I want the real, the real answer, but uh it's different. I I understandwhy they did it, it's gonna change is always hard. We've been the Whl for sixseasons thinking we were going to be the whl for 1/7. So um having beenthere from the beginning and kind of helped build that brand and seeeverything that went into it. Uh it's kind of sad to see that, you know flamego out, but at the same time, it's exciting to see what comes about fromthe P. H. F. I think it's gonna be a phenomenal business opportunity for theleague. I think that in the past there were things done whether intentionallyor not by the whl that just maybe left...

...a bad taste in people's mouths andwhile the has gained recognition amongst fans and things, I think thatthere were some companies and businesses that were hesitant to dobusiness with the WHL because of past business experiences. So I think thatthis new brand and this, this rebrand kind of severs ties with the old brandand we have new leadership, we have more teams, new investors. It really isa whole new and not necessarily improved, but it's just a revamped anew group of people working towards the same goal? I think that, yeah, you know,disassociates us from former leadership and will allow a branch out and kind ofcreate, create something new with the Whl, we're building off of thatfoundation and moving in a positive direction. Yeah, for sure. I know,obviously last year was crazy for everybody, especially your team,believe you guys have to like pull out of the league, um, for covid isprotocols and things like that. Um, are you like, how excited, how more excitedare you looking forward to this season that you're actually gonna get like toplay like a full season pumped. We've, you know, we've startedunofficial practices, so we've got, some of the team already skatingtogether, official practice starts in october. Um, but you know the wayeverything ended last year sucked? It left a really bad taste in my mouthpersonally. Um, I think we've got a lot of players coming back who feel thesame way. I'm obviously biased because I'm a riveter, but I think we had thebest team in the bubble and we never really got a chance to showcase what wehad. Um, we were just starting to click and get going and then the whole thinggot shut down and we never really got a chance to come back and show what wecould do. So I think that the group is excited to get back on the ice. I'mexcited. Um, and it kind of changes your perspective. You know, I wasdriving back from the brink on Tuesday and I was talking to somebody about it.I was like, it's just, it's a different...

...feeling this year, like last year itgot ripped away from us and we didn't, we didn't know when we were going toplay hockey and we didn't know if we were going to be included in that groupof people that got to go, you know, uh, to the final, we didn't know, you know,then there were all these changes through the league. I personally didn'tknow if I was going to be a riveter again because every year is differentcontracts. Leadership investors whatever some people you might chooseto go in different directions. So there was a lot of uncertainty in the way ofthe season ended and it sucked. So um I'm more motivated than I've ever beencoming into this season. I think a lot of my teammates feel that way I was atpractice a couple nights ago and I looked around and I was like I mean Ifeel threatened out there. There's there's people coming from my spot sothat that's a good way to feel. Um So I think we're gonna have a big year. Yeahfor sure. Yeah I mean you're only 30 years old obviously that's that's youngand regular life but you know pro life that's when like kind of things startuh I guess you know you got to start thinking about your second career andthings like that. But you so you've been a part of the league for since theinception. Um like what are the things that you've seen like change likeimprovement wise and things like that. I know even like the teams like therewas only four when you started. Yeah we've added teams obviously uh theprivate ownership has become more prominent now. I think there's fourteams that are privately owned even you know the Minnesota and um Buffalo aretechnically privately owned by W. H. P. Um So you know every team has now it'ssmaller groups of investment or a single investor focusing on one or twoor three teams as opposed to a whole group of people focusing on all theteams at once. Uh, it allows for more recent, more resources to be allocatedto individual teams. Obviously there's the increase in the salary cap, whichsome people scoffed at. We as athletes think it's huge. Um, that justincreases right off the bat, it increases our salary, but it also showsthat people are willing to invest in...

...female athletes and invest in our sport.And it draws eyes and attention so we get other businesses investing. Um, andso I mean there's more money in your pocket, the more businesses that cometo the door. Um, those have been huge from a personal standpoint. You know,personal sponsorships for me and other athletes across the league, that didn'thappen at all in the first season unless you were an olympic athlete. Now,it doesn't matter if you're an Olympian or you only play two games. I meancompanies are willing to invest in women and I think that that's huge.You're seeing athletes start to build personal brands and really make aliving out of it. Um, and so that's, that's been exciting to watch and be apart of and uh, it's only going to continue to grow and go up from here.Yeah, for sure. And those that don't know your hat stands for for you, whichis dope, which is the M in the 14. Um, and then just going back in time. LikeI know you grew up in, in michigan, How did, how did you end up going to theUniversity of Wisconsin? Yes, I grew up playing for littlecaesars, played there for four seasons and uh you know when I was in highschool, Wisconsin was like the pinnacle school, it was the place to be as ahockey player. Female hockey player, Minnesota Duluth was also really good.Um you know Harvard was in and out of that top mix Minnesota obviously, butreally I felt the W. C. H. A complimented the way that I playedgritty, you know, I'm not the fastest player out there. East coast is alittle more speed and things like that. The W. C. H. A. Is known for a littlebit being a little more physical, just bigger players at least it was at thetime when I was playing. Um, but most notably Mark johnson was there, you hadplayers like the a Merman's night Decker Duggan better the list goes onand just be angstrom phenomenal players that they were turning out of the U. S.Program and that was my goal was to be an Olympian and I felt like the way tobe the best was to play with the best...

...and try and compete with them on a dayto day. So I went and I just fell in love with the campus. It was six hoursto me is a drive. So that was a drive from home. Um, and so I could be homeovernight if I needed to be. It was close enough that my parents were ableto visit all the time. I'm a pretty big home body. So I just fell in love witheverything about it. And it was a big 10 school. The football part was a bigdraw for me. Um, and you know, I loved every minute of it. So I don't, I don't,wouldn't change anything about my decision. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Andthen not to mention you won the national championship your freshmanyear. Uh, what, what was that like to just win in your first year? It was surreal. I mean, I think that um,you know that year we were so good. Um, we had, we were stacked, we had uh rigsbeing met Becca roots, there was the backup cool. I mean that's a prettygood backup goaltender. She played it shaddock um, and just talk to bottomGina pro, Meghan Duggan. Hilary Knight Caroline provo, the Amur Mons, me um,fricassee like everyone on the roster was were phenomenal players. I left abunch out. But um, I mean every time we practiced it was like, oh my God, likethis is who, who I'm trying to go out and like compete for a spot with. So itwas, it was Meghan Duggan is probably one of the best leaders I've everplayed with, I say that all the time, she just, she's laid back, but shedemands excellence and she's was, it was a great person for me to learn from,she was approachable, she was kind, she was always willing to spend time withthe younger players and um you know, even if she didn't really care, shealways made you feel like she cared about your development and what youwere doing. Um and so it was a good environment to learn in as a rookie andI came and injured that, that's really intimidating, I blew my knee out of mylast game in my high school season. Um so I'm already coming in a step behindand I'm like, it's a whole new world...

...now, you go to college, it's already astep faster than what you're used to and I'm, you know, to step slowerbecause I'm coming back from a knee injury. Um so it just was, you know,the minute we got on the ice it was like, wow, this is gonna be a specialseason and I think we, I think we only lost three games all year um which waspretty cool and we won, we won um the dog and one the petty cash, we won thenational championship, we won the regular season and we don't want thewch a championship, so it's set the bar pretty high because then we never gotback to that peak of successful I was there, but it was pretty cool toexperience that you still have the ring. Yes, right there. I don't know if Ihave to ask because sometimes people like lose the rings and I'm just like,like how did you lose it? No. Yeah, I still have it. Put on this, like weactually be on. Yeah, we played bu that year in the farm. Yeah, that's great.Um, yeah, and then I know you had a few injuries over your career. Um, well,like what motivated you like through those injuries to come back? Mhm. Um, I think, um, for the most part, andI get everyone gets banged up here and there. Um The biggest one, the hardestone to come back from was my hip where that was a couple of seasons ago and Ijust remember how hard it was to come back from my knee injury. I had totalreconstructive surgery on my knee. I blew my uh, my A. C. L. M. C. L.Meniscus all at the same time and it was just such a grind and I hadphenomenal doctors, a great rehab team at the University of Wisconsin. DoesHelen who's no longer there? But he was phenomenal in working with me for hoursat a time every day. I moved to Madison almost right after I had the surgery.And so then when, I mean when I had to have labor of surgery, I was just like,oh my God, I can't imagine going through that again? Like, I just Idon't have I don't have someone to hold my hand like I did at Wisconsin to walkme through every step of the process.

Having I'm having surgery in new yorkcity ahead of the Ny, you dr Lomas did and same thing, he's a world classsurgeons. I woke up and walked out of surgery, felt great, but it was justintimidating to think about that rehab process because at the time we didn'thave the same resources that we have now um from a legal standpoint. Um butI kind of, you know, a couple of weeks after surgery, I was, I thought tomyself, you know, I feel pretty good and I think I could probably play again,so I got connected with some people and um went through the rehab and PT andgot back on the ice and I felt great and in that journey of figuring thingsout for myself, I learned, I spent a lot of time focusing on, like,nutrition and learning how to actually take care of my body, which has made itnow easier. I'm in a lot better shape now than I was four or five years ago,which makes it easier as I get older to continue to compete, but also just,I've actually get injured less because I took from that injury and learned howto be better going forward and yeah that's awesome. Um And then just likelike what were your thoughts like while you're in college? Like I know therewas like a Canadian pro league but I think they don't pay players, is thatright? They didn't at the time. I think Ithink they did I think they did for one season when they paid players but whenI was in when I graduated uh I graduated in december 2014 and therewas no N. W. H. O. And I thought about still playing but I was like I wasgonna like there were the closest team to me I think was in brampton Ontarioand I was like or maybe Toronto, I don't know, I moved back home inDetroit and I was like I could go play in Canada but like I'm not going to geta job in Canada and we have to pay to like commute for practices. It just Icould play like pick up men's and like the women's league would probably bebetter because I'm playing against all...

...these former college athletes but thiswas a lot of lot to put in. Um And then it just kind of lucked out that uh thel form I got an email like this women's professional league starting and I waslike all right, we'll check it out I guess. And they were having a freeagency camp in Windsor so I drove to Windsor which is about an hour fromDetroit And I went out and I like no disrespectto the other players that were there, but I think I might have scored like 30goals in the, in the hour and 15 minutes like scrimmage shape. And thenDani Rylan was there, the former commissioner and she was pullingplayers aside so I'm kind of stand off the side listening to her talk topeople and she's like, yeah, so you know, we're having another skate inboston, you can come and I'm thinking to myself like I can't do that. I can'ttake time off of work to go out to boston to like hope that I get a spoton the team somewhere. So I'm up next to talk to her and I'm expecting her togive me the same field and I have to say thanks for the opportunity, butit's just not gonna work for me. And she's like, so you know, I really likewhat we saw and we'd love to assign you to a contract in new york. And I waslike, yeah, I mean like, I mean I was was that was six years ago. I was like,yeah, I mean still living at home. So I probably asked my parents, but I'm inso I packed up my car and I moved to the East coast expecting to play oneseason of hockey and then moved back to the midwest and now I'm married with ason and a mortgage in Connecticut uh huh and that's the end of the podcastnow. Anyway. Uh but yeah, no, that's like crazy to think about. Like, solike I'm saying like you were in college, but you had no idea like ifthere's ever going to be like, kind of like a pro, like lead basically. Yeah, no, I mean it was, it's actuallylike crazy, like whirlwind of emotions. So my senior year were playing in thenational championship in uh, quinnipiac I think. And um, yeah, and uh, we lostto Minnesota in the semis and I had...

...been released from the national program.So I wasn't playing with usa hockey anymore and I'm sitting there thinkingto myself, I'm sitting in the corridor of the ring talking to my parents and Iwas like, that's it. Like my coffee clears over. I just went from playingon one of the best college teams in the world tonight. I'll never play anothercompetitive hockey games the rest of my life. It was like such a heartbreakingexperience. And I couldn't for like months, it was depressing and Icouldn't wrap my head around how this thing that has defined you rightbecause you go to college, you're a college athlete. But like if there'sclasses that conflict with with practice, maybe you don't get to takethose classes. Like it depends, you know, it all depends. And so all of asudden this thing that is completely consumed you, it paid for my education,it drove me to where I where I was, it just means nothing now. Um and thenobviously the league form and that's changed for me and I've been able tomake a career out of that sport for a long time but it could have gone a verydifferent way and I um and that for me like that was really like for a longtime, I I've talked about that a lot like it's just that's depressing likethere were no resources and that was what it was so crazy is like you gofrom having all of these resources as an athlete like down to like meal cardslike they hold your hand with everything, which is great. We werecompletely pampered at Wisconsin but then the minute you're done being anathlete it's very isolating and confusing and um you just kind of leftto fend for yourself, I think that you know, former athletes who are still inMadison every have done a good job of creating resources and starting someprograms to help athletes out. So that doesn't happen. Um but yeah, it'sunfortunate that the end of it all started when it did because you know, Idon't know how it would have been without that. Yeah. Yeah, that's whyit's just crazy to meet for me. Like think about like how do you mentallylike, like you obviously probably want to go pro if you're at one of the bigschools and then you're just like there...

...is no pro really? Yeah like it's justcrazy to think about all right now I'm gonna put you on the spot. I'm gonnaask you the same question when she comes on. How did you guys meet? So so when I when I retired retiredwhen I decided I wasn't gonna play anymore, I announced my retirement, Iwas done. I was having hip surgery blah blah had surgery came back, felt good,decided I wanted to come back and play called chad Wiseman who was the coachat the time and he said sounds like a good idea what are your teammates think?So I started calling my teammates one by one and was like, hey I want to comeback but I want to make sure you're good with it so if you're not I won'tplay. This is why I want to play. Are you cool? Called everyone on the team.Everyone was good with it. One of my teammates suggested that I call on youto at the time on your Battellino. She was the head of the P. A. And you knowshe could probably help me in getting you know back with the league andwhatever. So I called her and I said you know I had surgery and I had just Itold her I had just gone I had just broken up with my former um longtimegirlfriend. I was like, I just went through a breakup, like I just want toplay hockey again and I can do it and whatever, and she goes, okay, yeah, I'mhappy to help in any way I can sorry to hear about the break up. You know, ifyou ever want to talk whatever, I'm a resource for you didn't talk for awhile, then we just started kind of texting about hockey and whatever andshe asked me out a couple of times, I grab a drink and I was like, yeahthanks, but no thanks. Like I'm just going to do my own thing for a whileand she was pretty persistent. So then I'm coaching Beantown, this was likeover the course of maybe eight weeks. And she text me and she's like what areyou doing this weekend? I said I'm coaching Beantown. Oh my God, me too.No way! So a bunch of coincidences happened throughout the weekend andshe's like, I just got done coaching. Um What about you? I said, yeah, Ifinished at whatever time, if you want to come by my hotel, we can grab a beerin the lobby, but I've got a coach early in the morning. So she drives inmy hotel, we grab a beer, we ended up...

...talking, we had one beer in the lobbyhotel and I ended up sitting there talking until like six am, I didn't Inever went to bed, just talked all night and then I went and coached inthe morning and yeah, she texted me and I was like, yeah, I really enjoyedhanging out. Like we should grab dinner or something sometime. So we went outto dinner, she took me to this like super fancy french place because shethought I was like boujee and so we would sit down to eat, I can'tpronounce a single thing on the menu. I'm like, I guess I'll get the quailbecause it sounds kind of like chicken and we could happen to the meal. It'slike do not like it. I was like, honestly I'm more of like a burger kindof girl. And she was, oh my God, I thought you were like super highmaintenance. She's like, let's leave until we wouldn't grab burgers. And Ifound out months later, I didn't know months later, I think it was after wewere engaged, she wasn't coaching Beantown, she was at her apartment inConnecticut and jumped in the car and drove to Beantown to meet me for a beerand then just turned around and drove back. I can't wait to hear her storynow. It makes me sound like a real jerk, like she's like mad. It was like, noway, thanks, but no thanks, I do. It's very, just like no thank you, I'm allset. Mhm That's hilarious now. I know you guys had your son last year. He hejust turned one. So happy birthday again. What? How is that like changedyou? Um It's the best thing in the world,it's like immediately your life changes in a way that like, I can't evenexplain, but um it's just you look at everything from a different perspectiveum and and you really wanted a baby girl and so I really wanted a boy, so Iwas like so excited when I found out we were having a boy, but it's just funlike to have this little human who relies on you for everything and looksup to you and like he does everything I do he and it mimics. Um and it'sexciting, I think that um you know, he...

...comes to practice with me every now andthen uh it's completely changed my priorities and made me like reconsiderwhy I do everything that I do because like this next generation, he'sobviously a boy, but you know, this next generation of kids that we talkabout in pioneering in sports and just in the world in general, this nextgeneration of little humans, like they're not just this idea now we'reraising this next generation of people. Um So it's there's a weird lightpressure, but it's also like I I can't describe it, it's just it's the coolestfeeling and there's so much love, like I didn't think it was possible to lovesomething so much, like I love him more than anything in the world and it'sjust, it's completely filled our lives and there's never a dull moment.There's never a spare moment, but we wouldn't change it for the world. Yeah.You guys definitely have some funny videos with them too. I saw. And youwere doing the curl ups and you've got him on the bar to, uh, um, and thengoing back into hockey, I forgot to ask you like, what does it mean to you tobe like the captain of your team? Mm. I think, um, it's obviously anhonor anytime you get a letter in that kind of recognition from your coachingstaff for your teammates, whatever. I think I've been around for so long. I'mlike the fossil at this point. It's kind of like who else. Um, but I saythis all the time and I really believe it. I think that we have to think if Iweren't there, there's a long list of players in our locker room who arephenomenal leaders. Um, I think that's what has made me being a captain for aslong as I have been so easy. It's just that, you know, there's, I have a lotof other leaders around me to rely on And it's, it's easy to do the job. Itdoesn't, it's not like a pressure and there's not this extra, it's not like ajob on top of a job. It's just you go...

...to practice and you've got a lender onyour chest. But I've got 20 other teammates who could have the same oneand do the same thing. So um it's a nice kind of pat on the back, but Idon't necessarily think it changes anything um from like my rolestandpoint, it's just, it is what it is. Yeah, sure. You'rejust humble. Yeah. Just going, it's a non uh hockey stuff. Uh like what elsedo you like to do in your free time? Um We travel, we don't travel a lot,which we travel like for long periods of time. Um I like to be in the warmweather. I love to ride my bike uh in the off season. I ride like 2030 40miles a day. Um So I got a new bike like last, right when Covid hit umabout a new bike right before the national bike shortage occurred. Um Andso now we go down, we've been going on the floor in the last two years, we godown to like eight weeks in the off season. Um And that's just, that's whatit's been really good for my training, my mental health, my like rejuvenatedto be outside in the sun. Um So we go to florida every year for a couple ofweeks and my family has a place in Northern michigan, we go there for sixor so weeks, we'd like to be outside on the water. Um and and I both are prettyinvolved in different mental health campaigns and things like that. Sothat's something that I'm increasingly getting involved with and morepassionate about. Um I also have another job outside of playing hockeyso I don't have a ton of free time, but most of my free time I'm either on mybike just trailer so I can bring away along with me. Um but usually outsidedoing something. Not a big hiker though. I can't hike. I can't camp. All right.Um And then what about like, I don't know if you guys, I don't know if youguys are allowed to do it, but if you could do it, who would you want to do?Like a jersey exchange with...

...mm mm Grant Mentis. All right. Grant Mentis or um maybe Dempsey Just because like we'relike two of the two captains that have just like always been there. Yeahgrandma grandma is a pretty good hockey player. I do like that. You guys getnew like new design jerseys every year. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. UmDid you? Yeah, I don't know if those are the ones that it was like theymocked him up I guess there. I don't think they're real right. The mock upsthat they came out with like last week, maybe they were like, like the retro likeretro, there's like a tease. They're really going to come out with them orthey're not or like yeah, the miracle or something Toronto six was like ifyou if you think the T six was like if we get enough interest maybe we'll do aspecial on these. Those aren't going to actually be the jerseys. I don't thinkI don't know. I haven't seen our jerseys yet. I heard we're gettingthree jersey. Isn't it pretty cool or maybe they released him and I justdidn't see it on social media. But yeah, I was gonna say, I think I saw one teamreleased their jerseys. I don't know. I don't know because those other onesmessed me up because that's always confused about if those are real orlike alternates or what? Yeah. What about what something people don't knowabout you so then people don't know about me. UmI'm afraid of the dark sure. And I'm actually very sensitive. All right.Like I'm very sensitive. I was I was driving one of my teammates the otherday and she's like you're really sensitive and I was like, yeah, I knowit's actually like people think I'm not and then they like say things and I'mjust like I'm actually super sensitive.

I put on a good front though becauseI'm like out on the eyes like all tough and tumbling but I'm very, I'm softinside. I got you. Oh yeah that that's what that before when I lost my trainof thought now I remember what we were talking about and just our age becauseI'm 29 2 and now I feel like old even though we're like not old, but likejust like we're going younger people now, I'm just like wow, this is likekind of weird And I'm sure that's how you feel with like younger players,like you're playing with, like you can play with 22 year olds now. Mhm. Yeah,it's uh it's fun, it's like also my dad pokes fun at me sometimes because likeUh two seasons ago I played with Brook Baker who was on the 12 you littlecaesars team and I used to go out and coach them and like I was skating insummer skates this summer training, like I went out to train kelly nash wasrunning some skates and I was like doing drills against kids that Icoached like a couple of seasons ago who are now in college and are out ofthese skates and we're going against each other in drills and I was like,can I hit them like what? But that's kind of weird. Um But it's also funbecause it's like yeah there's there's like a 56 year age gap, but Brooke areais one of my best friends and there's like five years between us, I thinkRebecca russo is my best friend, there's three or four years between us.Um So yeah, there's an age gap, it's like, but I mean like you in collegethere's that 34 year age gap, but it's been uh interesting. You learned, Ilearned a lot. I mean, you learned from the older players too. But I feel likeI learned a lot more from the younger players because it's also like now it'sat the point where there's that four or 56 year gap where things that areimportant to them are things that weren't even on my radar when I wastheir age. Like, especially like the,...

I've always been passionate aboutmental health. But these younger generations of kids like, and theyreally talk about it. They talk about it openly. They talk about like theirexperiences with it. They just talk about in a conversation. Um, andthere's just, I mean, there's other, they don't even get me started onTiktok and social media stuff like we talked about like how do you like music?They're like path to make a playlist. I'm like, you don't wanna listen tomusic. I've been listening to the same playlist since like 2010, but so it'sfun because there are so many different interests, but like there's so manycommon interests. Um, and I probably learned a lot more from them than theylearn from me. So yeah, I mean, I think the younger people make you make youfeel young too and like keep you up to date with the hip, new trending stuff.All right. Well, I appreciate you coming on. And uh, could you let thelisteners know where they can follow you at? Yeah, you can find me on twitter. It'sMadison underscore packer. Uh, I'm on instagram and pack of 14. I am onTiktok now also impact or 14 Paul pushed me to get on Tiktok, but novideos yet, but we will have some content soon. I promise. I'm just biginto the Tiktok. So you're she went viral. Yeah, Yeah. And I'vegot a new coming out with some new stuff soon. In the next um couple weeksprobably. I'll have a shop up on power forward. All right. And I appreciate it.And best of luck this upcoming season. Thanks bob. This episode has beenbrought to you by B USr dot com. Go check it out to get your free $100 betwhen you deposit a $100 at B. U. S. R. Dot com slash paul. Okay. Yeah.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (150)