Average to Savage
Average to Savage

Episode · 4 years ago

Royce White | Average to Savage EP6

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This is the sixth episode of the Average to Savage podcast featuring Royce White. Paul Guarino talked with Royce White discussing his basketball career, mental health awareness, and his future projects! Follow Royce White https://twitter.com/Highway_30 https://www.instagram.com/last.renaissance.man/ https://www.facebook.com/therenaissanceman/ Powered by Trimino Protein Infused Water https://www.drinktrimino.com -- PG Sports is a digital sports brand that has been Everywhere & Anywhere since 2011. With a rapidly growing social network, we are dedicated to designing fresh apparel, breaking sports news, and connecting athletes to fans! ---- Follow Us Online Here: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pgsports Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pgsportsct Snapchat: https://www.snapchat.com/add/pgsports Website: https://www.pg-sports.com Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/pgsports

This is the average to savage podcast with Paul Greno everyone in anyone, athletes, Suett's and much more. WHAT'S UP, everybody? Got To be the sixth episode of the average savage podcast got another special guests, Royce White. Royce, what's up? How you good? Good, good, how are you? Man, I can't get playing. I'm I'm young and I'm healthy and I'm talented and I can't. I can't ask more. So Great. So what's this? Jump right into it, and I can you tell the listeners a little about yourself? Yeah, we're where to start, right? Yeah, I mean, yes'm my story probably most well known for having advocated for mental health in the NBA. PLAY TO IA State University and went on to be drafted. And this is where this is advocacy of missal policy really came to fruition from the place days, Minnesota, grew up most both parts of the twin cities in the apple call lifelong athletes, huge athletics family here, kids and very diverse family cultural background. And yes, here we are, here we are. Yeah, there. So besides playing basketball when you were younger, you playing the other sports. Yeah, yeah, played baseball, play soccer, play football. So yeah, yeah, definitely a multi sport athlete. Yeah, until about the ninth grade, I say, where where the basketball piece became more more specialized in all year round. Yeah, I mean growing up in Minnesota, were you into hockey or now? No, I wasn't. I never played hockey, but a lot of friends that played hockey and yeah, you know, I knew, I knew. I know a lot about how that went, a lot of hot games pretty that played and things like that, but I never never played myself, for sure, for sure. So, coming out of high school you're a top Ra crew, you're Jordan, all Americans, all the accolades, all that, and then you had a lot of choices to go to. You choose. You chose to stay at Minnesota and then transferred iowas state. He played. I was safe for one year and then you decide to go to the NBA. Right, right, right. And Yeah, actually, I remember, I remember being in college seeing you. I was state, just ball out on Yukon now here, because I'm in Connecticut, and that's that's how I actually first, I guess, discovered you and then I remember one time I was just like thinking. I was like, Yoh, where's that guy? Royce away at and then I looked up your story and stuff. That's why I got in contact with you, and then every kind enough to let me publish that open letter to the NBA, and actually that was like the biggest most of you article I had on my site so far. Oh Wow, man. Yeah, yeah, I know, if I didn't know a lot of people leaving it seen that. I mean, you know, it bigger question that will first off he that was that. That was a really pointed dinn a way to meet, you know, the fact that that you can game it was that was funny experienced as my person's La Nment and I had que success and then we had some success. We played the DEFENDIS champ that year, even though they were, you know, not not still not stilling with the services of Kim Walker, who is just a difference maker, and coach Calhoun, the legend was put it on self issues as well. So, you know, we played a Lesser Uton team than we could have faced, but you know, nonetheless we're able to beat them. That was that was a huge moment. Try was state basketball history and who definitely got glad that we that we got to cross pass through that to that that time period and yet man the letters. You know, it's just, it just it wasn't. It wasn't disseminated the same way. You feel a lot of these other open letters for people disseminated. You know, these players are being on there or other places. You know, it's just it just wasn't. He just wasn't circulated the same way. And you know, I just you know, you know, I think that that's very intentional. That was a very intentional move. But they is not, not only because the NBA has has a prolific media influence, which they most certainly do, more so because the implications of me clarifying my story immediately put some people in the media who have sticked the position in this conversation or in my in my story arc on one side of the other to certainly, you know, become they start to look wrong right. So that's that's part of the reason why they that it didn't it didn't carry that that same exposure that you see a lot of these other players open letters get it. Even my most recent open letter was for the second one much longer, much more as has come to sluition since then. I'm so we'll talk about but much more has been has been competised since this. You know, mental health does now accept it, at least publicly, and in disgusting and in a positive right or in an inclusive right or in a in a commitment to education life. And my ladies letters still hasn't hasn't...

...got the media circulation that these other people's letters get, and part of that is because I criticized media in the letter and I called the mercenary, which I think is some reactor. So for sure I got so follow up questions for that later. But so back to you getting drafted. You got dropped in first round, sixteen overall by the rockets right, right, right, two thousand and twelve. So what was that were what was that experience like? It was it was just a crazy time. sery man, I want to say it was just all excitement and fun and all those things, but and it was some of those things. But there was a huge conversation brewing about my anxiety, how it would affect my draft, people's view of much here flying, which was overblown. People ask me questions about mental health that I'm not credet so to answer from within the NBA, from the media that I tried my best answer anyway, because I saw it as an opportunity to set some light on at least a season of the preliminary knowledge that I had at the time was miss landscape, which was, you know, three, four degrees better than the general awareness of the vast public. Thus they wouldn't be asked me the Rut initial questions that they work. So you know, all of those things were swirling around at the time and, you know, just a very peculiar time and much of my time and my dog passbut for your overlast decade has just been really peculiar. You know, it's just I've seen people do things and say things that would just make you stratch your head. So yeah, sure, so you think your drafts off fell because of that? That's what they said. I know it, but I mean they actually said that. So people have said that since in that you know, top five talent went still in this rat because it's because of his anxiety. Are The whattop. So I think I think the verdict is it in on that, on that front. So so what your experience like in the rockets organization? There's some good people in organization and there were some, there were some some other types of people in the organization. You know, there's the people that I had good experiences with them. There's some people that I had some bad experiences with. You know, there's some coastes there that I like. I like Dick or staff, I like that Makale, I like the guys down there by name with Derek Austin. Like Derek Austin, Durson rosis was assistant GM at one point. I like care if he wasn't. He wasn't a bad guy, was he wasn't at stand up in an honest fourth right as I would have liked to be when certain conversation wants to certain places. I didn't mind say Pinky. I thought he was a reasonable voice at certain points of time. Carried probably tears a little bit of a different perspective on things, and I do, but I did and in the end with would probably advised one way versus the other. And you know in his constribution to the whole situation and then in the Fustret, to my mind, in Philadelphia as well, where he would then the general man is not an assistant genter manager and you know it. So, but there were there are people that you know that that I had good experience with. And then, you know, there are people that I did and Darrell, you know more. He's definitely a person that you know, just just wasn't not a well grounded guy. You know, it's especially in the situation that we were in. Yeah, I mean it had. They had all the ingredients to but just expose how not grounded someone is right. So, and that's kind of would end up happening from between me and here specifically. So, so, were you disappointed, like not playing for the rockets since they drafted you, or that where you disappointed that you didn't get to play like a regular season game with the rockets? Yeah, and I like the city Houston. I can do like the city Houston. Then I got much love for Houston and the people there express nothing but supporting love for me. I mean they're worthy. Occasional Internet souls that were emerged at the time and you know, what do you want to call them? It was their death threats and all the other kind of crazy, you know, disc ancher advantage it that people do on the Internet was happening at that time too. But you know, overall, the support for me the Houston community was was major. And Yeah, and I and I pretty much tanker. My my play and my a lot of times act that in my career I've anchored my play based on the community and I find that that community value or meaning and I let that propel my place. I was really disappointing. I get a chair to play there, besides the fact that we would have been really good. You know. Yeah, Houston goes out, they try to get the White Howard, to try to do all these different moves that in them not being, you know, the thing that would push them to the where they wanted to be. And now they're in. They're in a better place. You know, we could we could have, we could have cracked little feelings a lot earlier. Had I've been had I've been playing there escur? Yeah, for sure. So then they traded me maybe, or maybe they would have traded me anyway because people...

...do that. So, I mean it's it's it's hard to say, but you know, it's just it's just heart. It's really hard to think. You know, you had some guys there that that played really well in the NBA before, you know, you had owner. I stick there. It's not my fun is and Cares Jones. You guys are no, no, pushovers. Now I don't think that they don't have the same game changing ability that I do, but they really are really good players. Then they traded them too. So yeah, for sure. So you can trade the rockets. Trade you to the seventy sixers and then the sers cut you. But I was reading, I was doing some background stuff in all these NBA and also surprise that you got cut. So what happened there? Right, right, yeah, that's good question. Those in the analyst try analyze there. That's a good question. I'm wondering the same thing. I don't know. Trust the process, I guess. I don't know if we're even in that. I don't even know if that was there saying yet. That's the whole thing going on in the sports world in general. But but you know, specifically I can speak to the NBA, where this just illusion, or did illusion of control and competence and knowing what you're doing. And you know, I don't have to, I don't have anything gets people that play fantasy sports or that participated fantasy sports. But you know, for people at home to think, our fans to think that the NBA in their GM's anything more than, you know, high level business stantusy league. They're kidding them stuff, because these dudes don't know their ass from their elbow. I mean that's the reality. You need every d every year in the draft there's always a player where they're like, he's too short, he's not clicking enough, he doesn't shoot well enough. He does that. You don't fucking know ever played. Both of them never played. Let's just just keep it real, you know. I mean it's like, of course he drafts dame on green in the in the later part of the sticking around to you that you drafted, because you don't understand what it is to be a dog and you don't understand the intangible, the thing that don't show up on the STATUA. So analysts, you know, analytic guys like Daryl Morey, and then if dam had, you know, they're always going to have a fine spot. So yeah, so, so after the Sixers, the king signed your right and then you find you went, you went to the d league and then they called you up and you made three appearances. How that all happen? And I was just so it was it was one guy, an organization that saw Sol vision to play me at the one will buy Zaiah Thomas to the to more of his national score position, play Macamore at the three. He is there at the time where you get the four, de Mark's cousin set the five, which would have been a formidable line that there'd be a formidable lineup now. And you know the people stre was dissonance in the organization about about, you know, what the direction needs to be and and that came to perition outside of me, after me, and the fact that none of the people who were there are there anymore in those positions. That coaches in there, GM is in there and some other people in the organization that that aren't there as well. So some of the players, yeah, even there are, you know, Thomas doesn't even didn't there and you know, there city as ever. And I don't know how they thought they could, they could get better without having those Korean type of players. I just I don't know, I don't know. You know. That's what I mean, is like who can look at that and that? Man, people do not know what they're doing as much they think they do. You know. So, yeah, but I mean, wasn't it awesome accomplishment to like get on the M be get on get in the NBA game. I mean that, not really. I mean that I think some people could say that that it'd be such a low a little mark or a low value for so where I where I should be here really just my system of my own, you know, value or worth or accomplishing thing or goals is like no, I'm much. I'm much. I'm a hundred or thousand times more proud that the NBA has the first mental health director in all the pro sports. And getting in for fifty seconds on a ten day, you know, right then, put them. Put in for fifty seconds is more flapping the face and it is an accomplishment. Yeah. Well, do you think they did that as a publicity stunt? You think they did that as a publicity stunt? The king's I don't know who they be. Who They I mean, it's the thing. So I don't know. I mean I hope like if, if, if, that's the stars you guys are coming up with in your Marquis meetings, your your we got figures you in your basketball actum and we got to talk about your Your Business Acumen in general, and then dust your life actument, because that is...

...that is a horrible, horribly ineffective start. You have to first identify a demographic, conditional demographic, make a demographic aware of your of you can, in order to pull a start, get to establish some type of get to establish something with with the core audience, if you're going to next try to pull a stunt. That's affected. Got You. Got You. So the next season, two thousand and fifteen now, and you sign with the are you? You sign with the Clippers for the summer league, and then what happened there? Yeah, I mean we practice some before with some of the League. They give the team. The People in office tell me that. You know, they they seen everything they needed to see. Side. Didn't I need to play that much in some the league? Yeah, sor I's not playing that much and and I'm not doing that much cause I play that much. I played like twenty minutes or something like that out of the entire a hundred twenty minutes that we played. And play like five games, but maybe you're like a hundred sixty minutes. So yeah, I played like five minutes. I mean twenty minutes total. So I mean it's just it's just one another one those situations that I've been I've come across where we're just really wasn't affair shake. You know, that's just the reality. So so they just you didn't think that any intentions to sign you to the team. I'm not. Certainly wanted to think that it was that. I think that they wanted to. They wanted to engage the relationship and a much more slow and methodic manner than I wanted to, you know, I want to seem to tell me and go the ball. I'm let's see it, let's see all the bullshit there stands up, you know, stands up. Let's job if all if all the bullshit about about my game or about this anxiety of the spiritfly and let's see that that stuff holds up or not. And today they kind of wanted to do a thing where they wait and see how I did and then bring it back later, see how I did, bring me back later. But yeah, I'm not into it. into it because because really, what it does, what really is overall, what it what it lends itself to, is again this baseline permise that that me talking about missing health is actually more of a distraction or a risk than it is an asset. And I just I just don't agree with the premise on a foundational levels. Yeah, not a risk for somebody to talk about the most important issue in society today. It's not a risk. It's no more of a risk and it needs to be. or I since they it's not a risk. It's no more of a risk than it needs to be and it's totally quantifiably and categorically in necessity to be having that conversation and to do something needsful, meaningful in that space for sure. So it's two dozen, fifteen, and then you ended up not playing basketball season. Right, right, right, and now it goes back almost so a year later, in December, two sixteen, you signed with the National Basketball of Canada. So that how that come about. Connection with agents, had a few players that are played there. I'm saying, you're itching to come back play basketball, right, you're itching to come back to play basketball, right. Yeah, I definitely needed to get some different stuff out. You know, when you when you build up a life, life, life long routine of competitive, competitive exertion and competitive expression, you got to get that you got to get this shit out. And I definitely wanted to play, but I didn't wanted to play, you know, I just I just wanted to find the right spot and all the situations over in Europe at the time, because it was so close due to my situation in Houston, you know, person all of their portal post years or doubts about me being a distraction as well, and I was just tired of like trying to prove a casion about myself being important. So I did end not moving on any of those dis use, I mean moving on these opportunities. And when the Canada World came it worked out that it was done. We could go forward with yeah, for sure, and I mean you dominate in the league, winning the MVP, in the championship and in where I see twice. Or you want, you want the NVC this year too. I got it out of a to be this year. But yeah, all right. So, anyways, you killed it in Canada. Right. So was there any? was there any NBJA a teams reaching out like after all this now, after they seen them down made this leak? Of course not. No. Why not? Wow, why would it? Because you just question better question why would they? You can't. You can't work up the premise that the only, the only driving force of these NBA teams is to win games or make money. It's not it's not. It's just not true. Aster you can tell by Carl Hume said that you can affer people's motives by the results. Right. So we look at People's results, we...

...look at their actions, we look at their results. We can starting first and some of their motives. And it is inventially what they say is actually most of the time it isn't what people say. It is there. There, there motives. So you know, people can come to table and say, you know, we want to win games, we want to build a meaning for or your days and we want the organization to mean something the community. We want this, you want that, your push it. You know you're confident. You want to do a little work as possible and make buddy and be able to survive and navigate the industry and and be around and hopefully move up and in and along the way. You know you'll do things that bad. That's the thing that the human thing drive just the NBA, but it's it's hyper exposed in the NBA paradign because the thing that you do carry the needs for you to express that you actually know what you're doing versus a general curiosity or an exploration. Right. So, if I'm in the if I'm in the scientifically, its gaping like well, I'm putting together. I promises. I don't necessarily know the outcome is going to be. That's why we're doing the experiment. In the NBA. You have to state your your reputation, in your in your value on being right about something. Telling the case you're not right, you have to come up with an excuse while you're not right. Off The Times. It's just honest. That's just the reality. Yeah, so my point is the circle backing question is of course they wouldn't call me because they would have to admit that they were being dis on not only not only, not only on a structural level in the public, but there are people that are that would have to personally end their heart admit that they were wrong and the implications of them being wrong in my situation, in my situation, is heavy on their own personal lights. Yeah, so it's not. It's not just it's not just Adam silver going hey, you know what, we were structurally wrong about myself. No, it's mark you and going know, this guy actually is, this guy actually said that. Miss others being neglected. And not only is being neglected with the doubts average to probably being neglected in my own personal life and if I admit that he was right and I was wrong and that we were wrong, and that might suggest that I need to change something in my personal life right now, and I still don't want to do that. There's no there's no evidence that I want to do that anymore to day than I when I when I told them the foot off, the first stuff Gotcha. So what about? So what do you think of? Like Kevin Love and to Marta Rosen coming out and and now, like everybody's else, biggest now everybody's all like now everyone was like feeling bad in what I wanted to help and stuff like that. But when you said no one cared, yeah, I don't know where the time where movement and the spotlight and people's needing to be a part of something, needing to be significant in a way. To have a void is just distorting in a scaring of many conversations, with the healths being one of them, the grand daddy of them, but just one of them. And and I don't know if people really feeling bad. I don't. I don't take that for faith value. I think mental health is built up a momentium society because of the bad results we've gotten, where people knew that it was appropriate response to say, wow, this is a really this is a really courageous thing to do. Yeah, but I don't know if they really understand the infication of it. In part of it is that maybe they don't need to. Maybe there's a collective ECOS that actually Shas and molds the way that we think can respond to social recurrences. Though, for example, was like the bronze games to their stead. You have to specifically understand why you need to feel pass towards myth health in the moment, because collectively we've all moved towards a greater capassion for mental health, as as you know, as a group. So but that's much different, though, because then you individually go out and handibus things to say and it's not really respective for conclatives and it misses the boat right like for d like I respect Kevin Loving tomorrow rows and I respect Kelly whut bray and tyron Lou and everybody else who was spoken down now at this point. But the real question is, why is it such a why is it tear such a curse, for them to speak on the first place. Couldn't need that? We still have a could it be that we said have a digma around, get to health. That hasn't moved much as a society? Or maybe even more specifically, could it be that we all want the basketball player, for a few basketball players disclosed these same issues and they were cast out for so the immediate threat of disclosing your struggles in appeared to everybody. So that's what makes it seem more crease like. We all want. We all want. You all watch the last guy walk down the alley and come back with his hate crack. So the next guy to walked down the alley, we're like, damn dog, you're you're brave with hell track, you know. So there's that unspoken in the basketball field specifically, but also just in greater sports. You to that mental hasn't been acknowledge or discuss...

...any way. That's matches it significance or trevelous right. Has any athletes reach out to to talk about mental health? Oh Man, I've talked to a bunch of them, you know, I've talked to hundreds of them over the years. You know, everybody has this. Everybody knows. You know there's there's twenty five. You know, the number is going for people deal with NFL conditions or missing help, the miss of them. This films yearly. You know, the statistic that sticks out there that to thres the people who had enough conditions going diagnosed. This how you know, twenty five percent of people that could actually have clinical diagnosis get they were able to reach clinical care. And with those numbers alone you talk at fifty percent of people's time. I humors were a coupling species. Not only do we live in communities, but we live intimately, and Duos and the family units of usually for so that and everybody issue. So, yeah, a lot of these that reached out for this and everybody issue. Yeah, just so, and after the Kevin Love and Demar grosen thing came out, is that when all like ESPN and HBO and networks like that reach out to you to do like another interview, right. So that's that's kind of funny to right. You mean just like because it once again, once once one like these big star say so and then they reach back out to you. Yeah, I mean that's a that's a manifestation of it. You know, it did that. It did that effect. I mean that's good. That's good for you, obviously, but I'm just saying it's just got to realize that the attitude from the institution has to say a so so even the reaching back out and you have to talk about it again. I have to say the things that they don't want to have to talk about, right, yeah, so so, actually I'm in a bad spot where it's like the other reason back out to me. I got to say this earth thing again, and the people that that the people that I need to say it too, beyond the general public. They don't want to hear it. If you were a general public to see part of the issue with the mind a conversation that people aren't ready to wrestle with. Get. Is that the actual it is saying that, like, you know, in order to learn something, you have to be willing to become a fool, you have to be willing to be ignorant, you have to admit when you don't know something. The thing about because the health conversation is that that becomes perpetual. Once you dive into it, you start to realize that the vulnerability of not knowing only amplifized as you learn more. Right, because the mind is just a dynamic domain. So people are afraid of that, as they should be. It's an actual endeavor. But the general public, to the general public, I don't want to hear me talk about myself really, you know, and that's why I recently would I've been critical of the alcoholics in that basketball games or things like that's why my letter to get any tractions. Like the fans want a story like I'm Kevin Love, I had a panic attack, I'm steal an Allstar, everything peace team. But yeah, you, you do take that story. You don't want to hear the when you go to the basketball game and participate in drunkenness and that condone culturally and it has the sichemical sat on one of the most pernicient issues in the act. That's what you don't want to hear. Yeah, because you probably had the game drinking a fucking beer yourself. You, that's you. I mean the Fayers. That would that would be speaking to it like yeah, I know you don't want to hear that and I understand it, but nonetheless it's still true. So obviously obvious. Stay in that space. I'll keep my feet grounded in that state and let the let the politics in the Gospi of meals and the social medias and feel the stories and all that Shit. Sort yourself about that. That stuff is really you know, it's it's no ciffer going to fall where they were they're supposed to. So yeah, so, all right, let's jump into one more Basso question. Will jump into more mental health. Suf so you just I just saw a while I was making up these questions. You know, you just signed with the battalion team and series a Torino. That's a team in the coaches now Larry Brown the legend. So how was I going to be trying for a Larry Round? How did that? How the Hell did that happen? The Larry runs the coach and they're there. There are many connections in the basketball world and every time I come out on top of the other connection pool. You know. You know I have a relationship with someone there in Italy was very prominent on the basketball team. His name is Mosum and you know, Masumo and I have been talking over the last few years about me playing in Italy. Keep you know, he's been very supportive. Thinks that it's think that that it's a very huge opportunity for me personally. You know, he knows how I feel about about culture and history and science and Maths and philosophy, and...

...there's not a bigger, better place for it than Italy. And you know your basketball wid well. And so you know when the opportunity of a rose called me and I talked to coach Brown for a while. We had a good conversation. We touch about life more than anything and little bit about basketball. And you know the rest of history. Did you know coach Brown before this? No, I never knew coach Brown before it, before this, this situation. So, but I mean I was watching coach Browns and Ballen Iverson here, obviously, coach Codall and coach a really, really good destract different team that I also grew up in the air and watching. And you know, you just look, you know, as you know, he's is his story to season. So I knew him, he didn't really, e really know me. Yeah, so you're excited to play for him, right? Yeah. Yeah, anytime you get around knowledge like that in the basketball space, you got relation matters. And I really love review. You don't love the game, you know? Yeah, for sure. Are you ready for like once you get off the plane? My boy was over there in Italy said they had all posters of the upper and so I'm sure they're not closers all over of you. That's crazy. That's crazy, man. I got to get some some news, some new preaches over there for them to put the posts up. I'm looking on the Internet and all the pictures of the are from five years ago in the Houston Jersey there. Just seen. Yeah, to call Google, the AP or getting images, and say I need all those images down. I don't want to associate with those brands. Go, yeah, you go do a photoshoot and then sing be like here, use these, right, right, yeah, a knife, turn turn follows you out there in Italy. And you know, in my new uniform, a new organization to the new brand that I'm that I'm working with New Partnership and slot the Internet with dolt her, new actors, new sapts. Did you get to pick your number yet? We didn't even talk about that, man, but I'm sure, I'm sure, they'll hold one for me to hold the Jersey with dirty on it for me. That's your why is your favorite number? It's, as biblical proverb, Dirty Verse Thirty, and the Book of proverbs talks about the wine and then the lions, the Lions leadership, reliance, stature, and then the animal kingdom and his courage and his willingness to engage and not turn away from challenges. So they're goods, perfect for you. So yeah, thanks, can appreciate that. So how about has Brandon Marshall, the wide receiver, ever reach out to you, because I know he has a foundation. We've been in contact. It's a good do. I like to work. You do. I like to work. You're doing. I can't, I can I cannot be doing he's doing a good job. He's he's been outspoken, he's discussed the issue with transparency and honesty's maybe it still vulnerable at a very, very high rate. Like you know, one of the anxiety, depression, those things are more coming. Even if he did, is becoming more term in that thinks did is more term. And but that borderline personality disorder, that that's one that people don't really know. You know, into bipolar disorder and people know what bipolar is. They probably have a scarge perspective or thought about what bipolar actually is, or or what they think it is first what actually is. But you know there's a significant risk where you start to dispose. You know your you're dealing with some of those more even more friends not known disorders, and he's done that with a lot of what a lot of great and articulation and beautiful, beautiful. So I know you're working on a lot of projects. Can you tell me a little about that? I know you got a podcast going. You got like your foundations, stuff like that. Seeing a lot of I seen a lot of stuff. It's coming up under UND your pages. Yeah, man, that the podcast, another talk show, is going to be going to be really cool, man. I think that people are to enjoy it. I got a lot of good guests that are planning all coming on the show. A lot of people from the academic world, professors, you know, Lo peop would what he speaks with, expertise in certain fields. You know, people that I've met over the years that I've developed relationships with. So that should be a beauty. Theys, my mental company, you know, trying to push the conversation forward. You know, in a in a number of ways, working on metal health is to toptally. We do the first one here in the twin cities of an art. You know, if I could explain, it's more like a Science Museum all, you know, dedicated specifically to a mental health framework or curation. So a lot of neuroscience, a lot of things about the brain, a lot of things about social sociology and in the progressions of people and system the cultures and things...

...of that nature. So anxious mind has some some very ambitious goals. Probably do a podcast there in that space through just assistically form itself, not hosted by me, though the last of the sciences is a whole different thing. It's just just media site that is going to have all the hard questions. We're going to sign form all the hard questions, we're going to engage the hard questions, we're gonna you know, we're going to we're going to go down in the rabbit hole, we're going to go down in the desk and in the targets and see if we can trying to share more in nugget that can help us, you know, navigate this chaotic time and we want to bring knowledge and philosophy and all of these these things times art back to the framework in a way that amusimated to people can understand just how they're connected. Our modern societies did at it's groups even and defense he had probably the best part I could. I could find the anchor this this last one, the stunts movement is that, you know, you know, studies art of science in the Science of art, you know, learn how to see and everything connected everything else. I couldn't. I could put it better myself. So it's that project is in school till and that's where we publish my first letter. It's a long one, it's it's intense, red, it's you know, it's it's a tough read, but it's it's the right one, especially for my for my story, in my situation. It's only part of it, part of a much bigger book that I'm probably going to release later in the year and we're going to become a little more content from along the same vein of, you know, different, different topics that that people are going to be writing and contributing thoughts on. So video content as well. On the last for Asian cat, of personal shows mind up, the pot luck is one that I'm really excited about bringing three or four people to the table to have a conversation over some you know, based around food. Maybe, because I'm in Italy and it'll be even better show, maybe we'll go film some of those over there, and you know, it's just so much stuff in the works, man, so much with up in the works. striend of mine, as a group of my friends, is considered starting to think takes and, you know, to spike big time things that we're big envisions can be too in visits and can be compatient. And this point, we're sure you just got to get those Italian subtitles in there now, right, no doubt. So you think you could provide the audience with some tips on how to recognize signs or concerns of Mental Health and other people? Yeah, well, I think people should just start with a baseline of going to get you a therapist right now, proactively. Yeah, that's not I want. I want to stry to tell people into clinicians. There's clinicians that have trouble your properly diagnosi mental illnesses and they're they're different manifestation, there's a different nuance. Their get cold morbidities. There's there's there's trade experston in the field thirty years that's still that still make mistakes in that regard. But the then mention that you can take again getting really bad results, just going to get your stuff with their fist. Now you hurts, you don't matter, gentleman, then and not. You go get a therapist, you talk with them. Wants a lead. Once it's here, up to once. There's two weeks, once a month even. You know, you'll put this olf in a position to be over to identify those things with that person if they come along and if you are having to those experiences to probably come out in some of those conversations. So if you if you think something's wrong with you psychologically, that's probably a good markers. You know, it's none that I would need to say to to help reaffirm that you actually should go seek the health if you think, if you think that thing's wrong, I give it a prescription of this, you know, they tell you with general health then and going to the doctor regarding any other Mesical to certain if you actually have a question and it's not going away and it's not you're not able to reconcile it, you should probably go get a checked out. They're along that, along that vein. Understand that in the middle of health space there's cares that you can create a copy mechanism. That would start to that would maybe start to mask that question. That you have in that question. They go away in a case where if you have a test case that you have a heart disease, that might not go away. So that's going to be evident as you should then go toe somebody in the middle of health space. You were pretty actually, we're actually pretty good at creating coping mechanisms that make it hard to to associate one issue with an intinpoint. In pinpoint, that issue is what's its causal? You know it's caused. It's called. So, for example, you may have a question like a I think kind of differently about these things.

I'm still these type of most of the new situations. And then maybe you start drinking to cope with it and then you stop having that question because that's what alcoholic does. So the best that would be for you to go that they'repists. Now Start researching mental health, start researching some of the signs that there's some that have been studied across big population. The people start from there understand that that's not to be all end all and strapped into the psychological journey is as a lightelong one force all been. The follow up to that would be people that may know they're suffering from like depression or anxiety, or wouldn't any of the mental health disorders, but are often nervous to go seek professional help. And what was the hurdle like for you and how did you seek help? Yeah, well, I was having back headic affects. So you know, I need to even mediate. I needed to immediate ready, and I was able to actually get some of that from the high school. I was that they had a school basement of health system that really provided me a lot of supportant care and ultimately diagnosis, and I was able to, you know, change my entire life from the point I was seventeen years old on until now, being ten years later at twenty seven. Seems like a lifetime, like twenty thirty years went by, but you know, only ten years. So it was a that was a beautiful advantage and opportunity that I was able to take advantage of it. For sure. Do you think, Gou, you think it's true that everybody faces anxiety and depression at some point in their life? For sure? Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's probably a fake that. Yeah, okay, I think I think anxiety is anxiety is just inherity being human. Yeah, it's just now number one. So there's, you know, there's different levels of it. Again, there's also there's also different way that it made a set, though people may think like oh well, I I get fearful to when I get on plays, but I don't get a s fearful as as you do. I don't have the PAN for the sweaty hands or you know whatever. But maybe you don't sleep there at that. The other you know, I say in my in my piece, in my letter, that the three sort of subtle, pernicious, you know, red herrings of society are casting sweet deprivation and dehydration. You know, and you know it said that some eighty five percent of all sleep disturbances or sleep disorders are anxiety related. Then just an overwhelming number of people being plagued with with anxiety and disturbing it the DEACTI DI server people sleep. So that manifestation is it isn't normally equated with anxiety. You know, Restless Lakes thanelnen normally equated with anxiety. Right. So, but a totally can can become a symptom of it. So go ouch. When you came out with all this depressing, a different I'd say the person. Maybe depression maybe a bit different on the man again, you know, on the Mannequin of the depression spectrum. But as far as people haven't you know, general to spars and and chaos and the unsolvable questions in their own existing those states that they are unable to wrestle with the way that they would like to. That's everybody take, for sure. Yeah, for sure. So when you, when you came out with all this stuff, did did anyone else reach out to you? And like, did your teammates for you in general? Yeah, I mean my teammates were my teammates and I was state, so they are you know what I was doing with that and so their supports for two years. Yeah, the people that I grew up with for many apples, they had already they you know, they knew. They knew I was struggling with and they had supported me for years us. They were supported to I wasn't around them as much, though, because the situation we're going through, but my teammates in the R GV even what is. That's why I get up later on in my first year with Houston, they supported me. My coasting nurse supported me. You know, rest the beat, the tyler honey touch. So they were all supported men and I haven't I haven't had much out word expressing of non support and this entire and this entire journey. Most people are just supporters. Most people just understand that it's something that they themselves deal with, some of they know deals with or they deal with and had a really identified get. I get that all the time. Like you know what, I think, I feel like that too, learns it's never really got it checked out. So you know, it's been but supports of the...

...most part. So well, that's good then, but you think, you think sports can help, but mental health? Oh Yeah, for sure. I mean I was going to podcast of this day and you know, I made a comment that sports is the new supports of the new hyper leader. I don't know. Sports has never been the leader in communities or the athlete of have been there by the time where ask these are leaders in communities. Now the the intersection of many social issues are going to cross and cross the sports domain because that these are becoming more existentively curtious and and asks the leaders, the leadership role that they play in that space is going to matter and the way that the fans grant them. You know, the grant them the understanding or grant them the freedom or the leaks granted the Streetom to act. The more those things and actually inserting something to mean or something to value to those spaces can have a huge impact on all socialis use, including it to health. And you know, again there's like most bathlete, a lot of young kids have spend more time playing sports they are at their school. Yeah, and the cultures that you create around it to health and because of meritocracy in many ways has used itplications all the way people build their self identity and the way that people create their their praises the self a prison systems right. And so you know, not only is it super important for athletes in general, sports in general, because away from the pro sports, there's many of us that grow up to sports this right, when not making to be a pro. The Culture of sports has a lifelong effect on you, whether or not to become a pro. So if you if you look at it, Dont List and get his paramounts that not only sports help the issue, but that they actually that they actually get familiar with the issue and then become a become well versed it, because it did. The sports has a huge effect on society. M Yeah, I mean I think sports semi rule the world a little. Some jobs sometimes like sports is going too far actually, but but you know, it is where it is, where our value have taken it. So that will be value. We better, we better. We better take a second and look at what it's actually doing and what we wanted to do and what he can do and will happen if we don't and we don't take that that second to evaluate, that C already getting out of hand. Yeah, you know, that's that's the reality is. The fourth thing is out of hand now. That's that's the point. You know, we created a space where people can detach reality and all of their issues in their life with draft, the utility. Sometimes they can go too far. And in the professional level and even in the college level, and you see even in the high school level some of this fandom or this you know, the parent team defend high school level is it's just enraged and it's dis anchored. It's a mostly unstable and it's a whole lot of bad takes. All right. So again I circle back to the Alcoholic Snake Games and you know, if you're saying that space is explicitly childs friendly or family environments. What does it say about the development of family? What are you say about the development of children if you can go to a game, get drunk and yell a buck of crazy shit from somebody else's kids, or even your own? So what are some self help strategies that you do and do you think that could help others? Well, I read a lot. That's number one. I read a lot. I read a lot about middle he read a lot about different ways that it's been infesting new waves, different people stories. I like to read. That gives you a good reaffirmation that you're not alone and that some of these issues can get even weirder than you would then you have experienced, or weirder than you would think. They're be able to imagine, and I see that all the time, especially is get an APP kid where I'm like an that's your stories, man. My story is a cake. Walking there out Canas is scared to you know, I might get a little bit of panic from times, from my first pay Juana. It's dead and creates the paddy around traveler. You know, it's like you're actually have a them ways. Of course issues than that, and so it it. It has perspectives and it grounds you. Obviously I engaged the meditative practice quite a bit, in the breathing practice. So that's that's one way and I definitely can't...

...this to my die right. So again, part of the reason, one of the first things that doctors usually do when people come with panics or anxiety or even depression is they make sure that you have you your property hydrated and you're getting up vitam in deep and a lot of American diet are condition invited in D and Vitamin D is is, you know, the sunny. There's sunny delight unlike biting. And because we said from time inside and work to do another things, we we miss out on that by the D and that as that that has been shown to have the effect on on moved and another piece of that is again to to echo sleep. So when you don't sleep, you don't get room to sleep, you don't get autoquate sleep, you don't get making a sleep that has a way of bring it down your Stara tone, the levels, and when you saratone that would get too low to get things like anxiety in the presence. So you know which is which is if the chicken come before the agger, you know, type of conversation about just poor sleep caused anxiety, or the anxiety called course sleep, like you don't know, but either way both of them need to be addressed because you don't know. Not that we saidn't do anything about it, because we don't know the hols. It's there's there's a whole the things there. But that be my starter. Kid. Check to sleep, check the vitamin, stay hydrated, you know, engage the reading, engage the domain, learn about mental health, get you a their fist, do some meditative practice and Yoga can't hurt you anyway. Definitely helps to breathe in your heart, all those things, regardless of missing illness, and you know, get get strapped in, strapped in. It's going to be a long one. So is there at any last words for about mental health in general or anything you want to say help? This the most significant so Swiss history of humanity and we have to process right. It's it's the it's the it's the mothership, it's the top order of all these socialations. I don't care what's stuff about racism, families, marriage, work, plays, sex, their addiction, alcoholic drug use, you know, a homeless myths, parenting, education, all of these things. You know, they're all touching effect, criminality. They're all testing affected by the missile conversation and the mids of results in the conversation, or lack there of conversations. And ask us it. You know, issues only start to gain momentum and start to have their proper attention and priority in the world when people, when the people, start to do it from a grounds. Well, you know, when there's that ground swell and we have to stop looking at pop to our politicians to be reasonable. We should we send stopped expecting them to be reasonable or hold them accountable to reasonability. But we we should stop letting that be are are be all end all, you know, because they so no times to be in reasonable at the reality and and and we had individuals have to make these, think, the priority. But whether or not the systems come to bear fruits. So you know, for example, if you're going to the NBA Games, give yourself a drink, set off, you know, and if you're in a help, if you're an alcoholics, get them help. Saying you know, there's probably a reason why you're using up all that much. It's probably, as an underline it most certainly as underline yourself, cause I'll just say that. So get yourself some help and if you can refrain from, you know, doing the drinking six beers and yelling some crazy shit at Lebron James or Steph Curry, and do that, and that actually will, you know, those small random acts of time, this thing you know that we say starts to start to knowledge your year and go oh yeah, yeah, let me let me do that first, and then you can say the roys trying to you know, fixed structures and systems. You know you can. You can add that support to if you can find the way to do so, and we're going to continue to push those things by NBA's not getting off the hook. All their partners all just sponsors. They can act like they're getting off the hook, but they're not. We Still Prom in the middelf topic is that their door steps, in their house. It didn't face. They're in the wall. You feel that they have a soy engaging there, very engaged in whether or not they want acknowledge it. So we're going to get me to push that a brook and try and add perspective and add a decent direction on that front. But individually there's a lot of things that you can do and there's a lot of things that you will do that will have an effect on the immediate community arounds to your apply to kids, your co workers, your friends of the family and all kinds of people that's interact with. You know, just ask somebody how they're doing. That goes a long way. You know,...

...how you doing, man, on a how you really doing? I don't want to. I don't want to keep all right, I'm good. I don't want that Verday. Know How you're really doing. You know, let you do that. The more you know for sure. Are you ready for the random questions? Yeah, yeah, what kind of music are you listening now? Who's your favorite artist? Wow, music, I gotta I got another sortment of music that that that I go through. I got my own artist that I work with. Them My music company that I listened to often, rock row. I'll turn this shit that we're working on, but some or be stuff to artist that I've work with. As far as notable, notable music or household music, just so much good music out there, man. I think Jay. I think Jay get something credible with his album and mini regards. I think drake had a great album. You got to you had a great run albums. I mean, let's just be fucking honest here. I like and what Drake doing? You like a hater or an asshole or I don't know. You know, hey, you probably, you probably just sign up with a therapists first, because you're having some type but weird, as you know, hipster hater is, I'm going on in Europe, in your Shit and you know. But I also listen to I like the LP A lot. I try to go find LP music when I can do. The good finger solo writer, really a talented, great vocal raids. Who Else, you say, you could print. So we lost we lost the lesson. Most recently, you know, the go is. He from go. He's from Minnesota, right from Minnesota. So we keep this, we keep his catalogs alive and we keep his spirit alive with with with his music. So definitely love Chris Jay Cole put out an incredible album. I love that, you know, and there's still some some rock the roll regs putting off some great some great music. The black he's last album was online with on my listed to know, turf blue. They still on my playlist. It was so good. It was incredible album. I go on and know about the music marriage just there's so many great arts out there, you know, and I listened to a lot of music. So you Chris Cornel, you know Chris Mal Audio, slaves and the sound guard and that whole movements, you know, had a big impact on on my on me, and definitely it's a big part of my musical interests and the music that is. That is has been a big part of me times in my life. And you know, I go to the Games and listen to shaddle on the sun, you see saying. So you know, there's things that people wouldn't that. That's one of those sons. Fact people wouldn't know, but I feel what they done rolls the game to day. Maybe I was to day after the game kind of I'm listening to Chris Cornell on the way to the game. I'm getting that in that mode and that story mode and it's shaping Moron story doing things like that. So there's a lot of great music out there man here for sure. What about did you have any favorite players growing up? Yeah, yeah, of course I love I love Mike. Obvious that gripping the N th me. Mike was Mike was Mike. Nobody could deny what what Mike did Basketball. If you did, you're an asshole. That's the reality. And but I also loved it too. I love it. You know, he would use to a big time to way player too. Versatile was one of the first point forwards, if you really think about it, you know. So I liked him a lot. Only saw a highlights. The third before that, like birds and John's big goal and Dr Jay and Russell and Camber and all of God gotta, you know, give them their respect. But you know, Kay was nick to come after after Michael Jordan, right, so, and I was a Minnesota kids. Okg Big shout out to take it. You know, he et of shakes a lot of young players, a lot of young players. You know, it doesn't get the doesn't get the doesn't get the publicity of those the respect of the asolation that he deserves for his huge contribution to the basketball game. Another guy that really transformed the versatility of forwards. You know. And then you know, I I'm sting was in there as well, right, y'all loved Allan and and then and then there was lebronse. Right. So, you know, Lebron is has been the main stay for a long time now. They're all terms of players in there that I loved as well. I went to visit Carter Tamp I love vist Carter's you know, as personally the good cat love the game. Really really transformed his game and refined the game with his age at some of the Dayjuras and I was able to actually see and...

...hear him say that he was going to do that and then go do it. So as a young player, seventeen, that was really cool. You know how that is. Camping. He had just come off of or was just going to have an ankle surgery. He was like, y'all, change it, you know, Felly, you got to give the change the game. You got to be able to do you got to be able to do this, this nitch, and then to watch them go out there, to be able to stick around for another eleven, twelve years doing that and see that through is incredible. Sure no team that with another one of the first point forwards. So you know there's going to be obviously know like get denied with Kobe is done. I love Koke's game. Yet some memorable moments sat other players to that that weren't actually dirt. Can I not mintioned dirts transformed the game other players to in it. That that people, you know, trying to forget to mission that Baron Baby, I love there. They gave those players those a lot of players have saved my game and I'm going to do this. I want a lot of basketball and a lot of guys gave me a lot out of a lot of inspiration. Yeah, like that, like that, like student of the game. All right, the ultimate question, but just keep this one short because I know it could be hours long. and Gerald Lebron. What's that him? JERAL Bron? Oh Man, I think that I don't do it. You know, you can't played in the air where you can answer one with a bona fid sport, with the go to move. You know, I think. I think Michael Jordan has one of the deal it's not the most effective, the second most effective go to move behind the guy. Look at the turn around fade away, and I mean Lebron James doesn't have a go to move and he's still able to go out and get forty at will here. Ability, creativity, strained, athleticism, you know all of those things. So I mean is you know, how can you compare? You know? I mean, obviously I think Lebron James is a better pastor then Michael George, croudly because of the side athleticism, maybe because of his attitude of approach, I'm not sure. I'm not in their head could have been as god of a pastor as well. Any assist per game off boats of Lens Average and another two to or. That's more like a killing. You know. That's that's more of a mentality. That's more Michael Jordan going I'm going to take this shot first in the bronzing I'm going to pass the ball because it's just a basketball play. So you know, it's it's just the kind of apples in origin in my opinions, and you know I love them, both men. As if people should spend less time compare and great players. When you when you don't know, I'm nothing must you, but I'm come up this whole crazy over compared players and shit is more like. It's more like for for a got people who don't really play the sport, you know I mean, and the ass we can pulled into it, that people want to ask people who actually Peter to get them or are in face field or whatever they go. Then if you get nappy sports to get them anser and it's like, you know, we really don't want to be discussing at all and it's it really doesn't matter, you know. It's like we respect to appreciate both their contributions and if you just have to say somebody's better, but you had to judge it on something, I guess you could just show stay of this shifts, but the Michael Jordan wouldn't be the best either. So you have to give that not to Bill Russell. So you know what you could possibly do, because they're some totally different players and totally different years. Let nobody in the right mind say that Russell is anywhere near the talent or ability of Michael Jordan. So just an absurd and a third way to try and even frame the whole compare, in my opinion, but it would do it. I'm sick of it, all right. What last one? What do you think about all our ball and the ball family? I think that it's bound to happen, right, it's like Al Conversation of many respects is bound to happen. They were bound to shoot. There was bound to be a family or father that saw the business, the business reality of the industry of the basketball sports domain and put his foot forward capitalize on that in the way that he wanted to, in the way that he saws it. Yeah, there's bound happen. There's bound to happen. It's what happens when, when, when a group of people, unwarned to be take fifty percent for being littleman. That's what you produce, your producer of our ball and this, if people don't understand the reference, the people that run the league their middleman. No middleman gets fifty percent.

That's that's absurdity. Okay, they don't create shit, they don't. They don't do anything other than broke the deals with the TV with the teeth, you know, broke the TV deals and which really sells themselves because the product is so it's so self sufficient, rights such a such a good product, that it did not much work yet to do. Like you could go into the office with Sports Walk Give me in negotiate an NBA TV deal. You know anybody? Anybody, I mean and I don't see anybody, but a lot of people could do that, you know. So that the more middleman position. But that's what happens when middleman start to, you know, anchor a superficial position within a within a paradigm, and you get these all suits and these people that are like, well, wait a minute, why am I going through Nike where I could just go to Turner? It makes sure myself. I get that, you know I get that. But at the same time, so I think that their whole message, in their whole their whole strategy and the whole lay out or rollout is is is good for community at large. Now really not really putt it, but but a lot of people message it isn't really refined in that manner. You know, I just thought I have problems with I have a problem with you, you know, talking about the price. You know huge or you know the same. You know all the darks. You can say that you're you're claiming are trying to try to monopolize the palace of these young men and then you go and you set the price for a shoe enough the one percent of the market. That's a little hypocritical, but maybe there's a good reason. I don't know. I'm not involved with with that. Movements important, like you know. Hopefully you can you can do is figure it out and seem to refine and continue to make it better, continue to hold the vest is, continue to help the people that you can or use use the platform to do something meaningful. I'm at a deep level and I tell my head to him. It's a it's a it's good to see somebody says something up, you know, and the voice that are doing though, you know the voices that are in the shake up. What will sound the ATRIPO and they'll sound all day systems and things like that. But, you know, give up to respected. Yeah, for sure. Well, I appreciate you coming on the show and if you want to shout out anybody and tell people where to follow, you gives out cut man, rest of peace. You know, we miss you, we love you. We failed you. To follow me anywhere, man, I don't mind. Don't follow me, you know, go, go, MES honey cuts mother, the Davids Stir, telling to apologize how a honey touch mother, to the mess the Adams Silver, tell him to apologize that he touch mother. You know I mean, don't, don't, don't, don't bother with me. I think I'm doing they'll following your AP probably. That's the way I wanted to be I want I want the things I do to fall and you lap. I want you to have to speak it out. I wanted to be so valuable that you just come across. They can kill it and you like to be better. But but as far as you doing, you'll put some energy to tell those do to go apologize at how mother, because they could have saved device. Oh, I appreciate your time and I can't wait to release this one. Appreciate your brother. WE'LL TALK.

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